Indonesia is one of the world’s largest democracies, and as such has a crucially important role in promoting the political system throughout the region. That is the view of former Malaysian Deputy Prime Minister Anwar Ibrahim, currently in town for the sixth meeting of the Word Movement for Democracy Forum.
On Sunday, Anwar, the current leader of Malaysia’s opposition People’s Justice Party, sat down with to discuss Indonesia’s role in Southeast Asia, Burma and human rights, the recent Indonesia-Malaysia tension and his personal thoughts on President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono.
What do you think about Indonesia’s democracy? What is Indonesia’s role in promoting democracy in Southeast Asia?
For a nascent democracy, I would consider it phenomenal. [Indonesia] has been able to build the institution, but there has been absolutely no talk of reversal, of returning back to the old order.
Yes, Indonesia is confronting some major problems of endemic corruption, development and marginalization and abject poverty. But because the institution is quite formidable, you have free media that can put the House of Representatives, the anticorruption agency or the tax regime under heavy scrutiny.
What are some of the problems that hamper Indonesia from furthering its democratization ?
It has to grapple with the issue of corruption, which has become endemic, almost as part of the culture. It has to employ strong political will and resolve to handle this.
In the recently concluded Asean meeting, the group told Burma that it wants fair and inclusive elections. Do you think Asean should stick to its policy of non-interference in internal affairs?
I’m certainly cynical with the whole idea of constructive engagement because for the past two decades, nothing has happened. Secondly, to assume that just because Myanmar [Burma] is going to have an election, doesn’t mean that is going to be free and fair. Elections are only meaningful if they are independently managed and are free and fair.
So do I suggest therefore that Asean should be more proactive? Yes. Why can’t we express ourselves, consistent with the Asean charter and spirit, to respect freedom and human rights?
Do you think Indonesia should play a bigger role in tackling the Burma issue?
Indonesia should take the lead here ... It has to be more proactive because it is the beacon of hope for democracy in the region. We’re not expecting you to go interfere with how they run their system. But the basic parameter should be made clear.
Asean recently formed the Asean Intergovernmental Commission on Human Rights. What do you think of that body?
AICHR is a mockery of the principle of human rights. Who constitutes the membership of AICHR? Except for Indonesia and one or two other countries, members are known to be people who don’t even respect basic human rights.
This is nothing personal, or directed to any country. If you want to have a serious human rights commission, then there must be parameter laid down. A person representing the country must be known and affirmed in his belief and commitment to human rights.
This doesn’t seem to happen, so what do you expect the committee to do?
Indonesia is currently facing a series of national crises, from the Bank Century scandal to the tax cases. What do you think of SBY’s performance in handling these cases?
In countries, the issue of legitimacy is fundamental. He has the legitimacy. He has the popular endorsement to his leadership and policies. There’s a general expectation that he needs to be firm and resolved in dealing with these issues.
Why is there always a tension between Indonesia and Malaysia, despite us being neighbors that share many similarities?
Neighbors do have problems naturally. But I think — and I’m a bit biased, I’ve been accused of being anti-Malaysian — that there’s a perceived arrogance on the part of Malaysia, which needs to be corrected.
On Sunday, Anwar, the current leader of Malaysia’s opposition People’s Justice Party, sat down with to discuss Indonesia’s role in Southeast Asia, Burma and human rights, the recent Indonesia-Malaysia tension and his personal thoughts on President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono.
What do you think about Indonesia’s democracy? What is Indonesia’s role in promoting democracy in Southeast Asia?
For a nascent democracy, I would consider it phenomenal. [Indonesia] has been able to build the institution, but there has been absolutely no talk of reversal, of returning back to the old order.
Yes, Indonesia is confronting some major problems of endemic corruption, development and marginalization and abject poverty. But because the institution is quite formidable, you have free media that can put the House of Representatives, the anticorruption agency or the tax regime under heavy scrutiny.
What are some of the problems that hamper Indonesia from furthering its democratization ?
It has to grapple with the issue of corruption, which has become endemic, almost as part of the culture. It has to employ strong political will and resolve to handle this.
In the recently concluded Asean meeting, the group told Burma that it wants fair and inclusive elections. Do you think Asean should stick to its policy of non-interference in internal affairs?
I’m certainly cynical with the whole idea of constructive engagement because for the past two decades, nothing has happened. Secondly, to assume that just because Myanmar [Burma] is going to have an election, doesn’t mean that is going to be free and fair. Elections are only meaningful if they are independently managed and are free and fair.
So do I suggest therefore that Asean should be more proactive? Yes. Why can’t we express ourselves, consistent with the Asean charter and spirit, to respect freedom and human rights?
Do you think Indonesia should play a bigger role in tackling the Burma issue?
Indonesia should take the lead here ... It has to be more proactive because it is the beacon of hope for democracy in the region. We’re not expecting you to go interfere with how they run their system. But the basic parameter should be made clear.
Asean recently formed the Asean Intergovernmental Commission on Human Rights. What do you think of that body?
AICHR is a mockery of the principle of human rights. Who constitutes the membership of AICHR? Except for Indonesia and one or two other countries, members are known to be people who don’t even respect basic human rights.
This is nothing personal, or directed to any country. If you want to have a serious human rights commission, then there must be parameter laid down. A person representing the country must be known and affirmed in his belief and commitment to human rights.
This doesn’t seem to happen, so what do you expect the committee to do?
Indonesia is currently facing a series of national crises, from the Bank Century scandal to the tax cases. What do you think of SBY’s performance in handling these cases?
In countries, the issue of legitimacy is fundamental. He has the legitimacy. He has the popular endorsement to his leadership and policies. There’s a general expectation that he needs to be firm and resolved in dealing with these issues.
Why is there always a tension between Indonesia and Malaysia, despite us being neighbors that share many similarities?
Neighbors do have problems naturally. But I think — and I’m a bit biased, I’ve been accused of being anti-Malaysian — that there’s a perceived arrogance on the part of Malaysia, which needs to be corrected.
